We Have $250K to Invest, What Are We Considering?

Have you ever wanted to know what investors consider before buying a rental property?  Now is your chance to listen as we discuss the factors behind our decision to invest $250,000 in our next rental.

From what kind of property to all the different locations throughout the US where we are considering investing, we are here today to lay it all out there.

We are discussing why we like specific locations as well as our strategy for this next long-term purchase.  

LINKS

👉 EP16: Is Holding Your Rental Properties in an LLC Right for You?

👉 EP56: How and When to Transfer Your Rental Property Into an LLC

👉 EP12: Our Experience With a 1031 Exchange, Would We Do It Again?

👉 Email us for the link to WealthFront Online Bank to open an online account at 5% interest with a .05% bonus!

Stacie@YourLandlordResource.com

Kevin@YourLandlordResource.com 

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Transcript

Kevin: 0:00

But hey, you guys, that is why we're talking to you about this today. I mean, we're walking you through our journey on buying the next rental property. And sometimes the decisions we have to make are not easy. We are going over the good, the bad, and the ugly. Giving you all the factors that are important to us when looking to buy a rental property. So, take what you hear with a grain of salt. Our situation is unique to us, just as yours is to you. But we just might make some points that you have not considered yet. And that's why we do what we do here at Your Landlord Resource.

0:39

Welcome to your Landlord Resource Podcast. Many moons ago, when I started as a landlord, I was as green as it gets. I may have had my real estate license, but I lacked confidence and the hands on experience needed when it came to dealing with tenants, leases, maintenance, and bookkeeping. After many failed attempts, fast forward to today, Kevin and I have doubled our doors and created an organized, professionally operated rental property business. Want to go from overwhelmed to confident? If you're an ambitious landlord or maybe one in the making, join us as we provide strategies and teach actionable steps to help you reach your goals and the lifestyle you desire, all while building a streamlined and profitable rental property business. This is your Landlord Resource Podcast.

Stacie: 1:28

Hey there, landlords. Thanks for tuning in to the Your Landlord Resource Podcast. I am your host, Stacie Casella, and I'm here with the man of the hour, who also happens to be my co host, Kevin Kilroy.

Kevin: 1:40

So just the man of the hour, huh?

Stacie: 1:43

Yes today, yes man of the hour. I need to evaluate it hour by hour because things can change pretty quickly around here.

Kevin: 1:52

Oh, you're telling me they can.

Stacie: 1:54

And so it begins. Okay, you guys, let's get to our subject this week and that is that we have sold a rental property. And we have around$250,000 to invest in a new rental.

Kevin: 2:08

And let me jump in here real quick and explain what we sold and why we sold it so we can put a reason behind why we now have this money to invest.

Stacie: 2:18

All right, that sounds good to me. Take it away, Kev.

Kevin: 2:21

Okay, here we go. So many of you already know this, but we had a single family home located in a small college town in Chico, California. And it's about a three hour drive from us here in the San Francisco Bay Area. You may know it from the devastating Camp Wildfire that happened up there in 2018. And it was one of the most devastating fires ever in the U. S. And unfortunately, there's another huge fire up there currently and that's known as the Park Fire. It's really sad. Anyway, Chico itself is a great little town. It has all the amenities you'd want, but we bought this home when our son was going to college at California State University, Chico. We were paying a small fortune for him to rent a room in a really rundown home where the landlord was, okay, well, how do I put this nicely? Um, Oh, he was an idiot. He didn't know the laws and thought he could bully the kids around. And that just didn't sit well with us for obvious reasons. So we found a cute little three bedroom, two bath, cottage style home that was somewhat updated. We put some money into it, not because we had to, but because we wanted the kids to have a nice home to live in with minimal issues. We put on a new roof. We redid the heating system. We leveled out some floors that were really sloping pretty bad. And we pushed one bedroom out and added a proper closet. And most importantly, we added air conditioning. Which, for those of you unfamiliar with the area, in early summer this year, and that's 2024 for those listening later, we had several days during a heat wave that was over 112 and there was a couple of weeks where the high didn't get under 100 I believe.

Stacie: 4:11

Yeah, I mean they hit 117 and 115 for two of those days and that is insane for that area.

Kevin: 4:19

Yeah. No thank you. Even with AC that's too damn hot. And luckily for the school year it doesn't get that hot but in the summer months it's, yeah, it can be brutal. But we bought the home back in 2016 and we held it for a couple of years after kid number two graduated because he wasn't sure where he was going to end up living. He thought he might like to go back up there and live for a while, but then changed his mind and ended up moving up to Idaho. And as you know, we did buy a fourplex out there soon after he moved there in 2022. We did decide to do some upgrades to the Chico house after the college kids were done with it. We redid the front and side porches and changed out all the windows to double pane, you know, more efficient ones. Then we changed out all of the old carpet that was stained and nasty and dirty from the boys living there several years. And then two weeks later, we had a horrible flood. The water supply line to the toilet in the main bathroom, which was located in the center of the house, broke and water ran into the house for about three days. So all the brand new carpet, a lot of the walls and the main bathroom were just trashed. And because many people were still rebuilding their homes after the devastating campfire from a couple of years prior, finding a contractor was nearly impossible.

Stacie: 5:43

Yeah. Well, we had a great contractor who had done all the work when we had bought the house originally. But unfortunately his house burnt down. And even though he had rebuilt it, he had more work than he knew what to do with. And a small job like ours was something that no one really wanted to touch.

Kevin: 6:04

Well, I mean, there were guys, but their prices were astronomical. I mean, talk about price gouging. But we ended up doing a lot of the demo work ourselves and then paid our Sacramento contractor to go up when he could and work on it. And for reference, Sacramento is about 90 minutes south so, when he had several days open he would go and do what he could. But it could be weeks before you could get back there and get some more work done. So the point here being that what should have taken us a couple of months to complete took us damn near a year.

Stacie: 6:39

Yeah. I mean, that place was a definite thorn in our side. And we hit so many roadblocks the last couple of years of owning it. And when it was finally done, we did look into renting it out, but the money that we were going to earn, just, it wasn't enough to justify keeping it. We, hold a high value in having a solid team or boots on the ground, for some of you that might know that for properties that are far away from us. And because we wanted to self manage it being three hours away, especially when we no longer had reliable people to lean on to help in an emergency, we decided to sell it and move on. And to be honest, we are working to get out of owning single family home rentals and move into holding only multifamily properties. And we did very well on this sale. No complaints there. And just one more thing to note about that Chico property. It was held under the LLC, but right after the kids moved out, I dropped it out of the LLC and into my personal name. It's kind of a reverse of buying a property in your personal name and then adding that asset to your already established LLC. Where this process is legal, the IRS does not like it one bit. So you have to be able to drop a property out and hold it in your personal name for at least a year, but two tax years or more is better. Also selling 50 percent or more of an LLC's interest, in a year could terminate the LLC for tax purposes, even if it remains a business entity under state law. This could have significant consequences for some LLCs, especially those that own property that qualifies for accelerated depreciation. So we were careful about making this decision and absolutely consulted our CPA and our real estate attorney before moving ahead. But our reasoning for dropping it out of the LLC was twofold. One, if kid two decided he wanted to live up there, we would have likely sold the property to him at some point. As it would have been some sort of creative sale, having it under the LLC was not the best scenario. If he did not purchase it, which is exactly what happened, we are now in a position to be able to sell that property and use the funds to buy another investment property. Or do whatever we wanted with the capital gain.

Kevin: 9:02

And when Stacie says do whatever we want with the capital, she means use it for personal needs like the wedding we have coming up for kid number one.

Stacie: 9:11

Exactly, right. If the property was in an LLC, we would not be able to easily pull that capital out to use it for personal use.

Kevin: 9:20

Also getting a loan through the LLC is much harder than in our personal name. So that was a consideration as well. If you want to know more about LLCs, we have a couple of podcasts we've done about them. I believe they are episodes 16 and 56, and we'll link them in the show notes if you'd like to check them out. Now, you might be wondering, why didn't we just do a 1031 exchange? And the answer is, because the capital gains we anticipate paying will be low. Where we originally bought the home for$255,000 and ended up selling it for$382,000 that gave us a gain of$127,000. But, when you consider the depreciation and all the work completed for improvements to the house, plus the closing costs, our gain was down to nearly$50,000. Which means for a capital gains tax of around$15,000, we were able to keep all of the capital. Now with a 1031 exchange, they are really super beneficial if you're going to end up with, let's say, over$100,000 of capital gains, or a tax bill of$30,000 or more. So what's important to understand is you have to consider the value of money in your situation. And in this one for us, it was more beneficial to pay the small amount of capital gains tax and now we can do whatever we want with the remaining funds.

Stacie: 10:49

Yeah. 1031 exchanges are an awesome option when you have a lot of capital on your hands. But it can cost a bunch to have lawyers involved and a qualified intermediary as well. We did a podcast about our experience doing a 1031 exchange, I think it's episode 12. But we'll link it in the show notes so you can give it a listen. Like Kevin said, for this property, a 1031 exchange just wasn't worth it. Which leads us to where we are today. We are allocating$250,000 towards a new investment property. And we would love to be able to self manage the property, even if we chose an investment that was out of state. But sometimes that is tough depending on the property and the location. So if we evaluate a property that is located out of state, we are generally including a property management fee in our evaluation. Which would not be necessary if we buy in Northern California or even San Diego where kid number one lives. We do know that this purchase will be a long term hold for us or at least until we gain some equity and then likely we're going to 1031 exchange it into a larger complex. What do we want? We would love to be able to purchase another sixplex in Sacramento, California near our existing sixplex. Mostly because we have our whole team here and they're ready to go and it's a market that we really know well. Here's the problem we're having though.$250,000 is not enough of a down payment for a traditional commercial loan. Or for that matter, even a private lender. The one property that we like is up for$1.35 million. If we could get it for$1.25 million, our$250,000 would be a 20 percent down payment, which seems okay. But it seems most of the lenders that we're dealing with, at rates that we can afford, are looking for a much higher down payment. They want to see the debt to income ratio much lower.

Kevin: 12:55

Yeah, I mean, these lenders are in it for the money. And for a long time we would say, well, if we default, they get a really nice building, but that's the exact opposite of what lenders want. They absolutely do not want to have to foreclose and then sell any property, much less a commercial property which is five units or more. They want to focus on banking and lending and not property management. Buying a commercial property has way different lending parameters than a non commercial property, which is a single family home, a duplex, a triplex, or a fourplex. Anything with five or more units, traditional lenders will look at what the property earns and profits, and I will tell you, they want to see a lot more than$100 a door. If we were to buy a fourplex, then the lender would consider the rental income generated along with our own personal income. They are less concerned with the income and expenses of the building, and more interested in whether we could qualify personally and what other assets we have to support the loan. We can qualify for a non commercial property, four units or less, no problem. The thing is here in California, a fourplex does not earn enough cashflow to make it worth our time. The other issue is that the prices of these buildings are set at market rate for a top notch building. But the interiors, as well as the rental rates don't match the price. Yes, they are value add, meaning they need to be renovated with updated kitchens, bathrooms and floorings. Which yes, they would fetch more rent, but not enough initially to offset the expense of the updates. Remember we're here in California and there is rent control. So once someone is in a unit, we are limited on how much we can raise the rents on them. And this is also why when we see other investors selling their properties for top dollar, we just shake our heads. I mean, most of these places have rents that are way below market rent. And people like us with$250,000 as a down payment, cannot make the numbers work. Unless someone goes in there and pays all cash or does a 1031 exchange with an enormous down payment, for most of the properties we are finding in the area of our existing sixplex, we would be underwater several thousand dollars a month. I mean, that's just a big no way. The one example we mentioned above, the sixplex for a million and a quarter, would be an exception. We would likely be in the negative around$500 a month, however, our other 6 plex could cover that.. And as tenants move out, we can slowly increase rents to be at a break even point in a year, maybe two. Remember, these are long term holds for us. So we are banking on the fact that we can increase our equity by way of increased appreciation and loan paydown. Which would put us in a decent position to be able to 1031 exchange into a larger complex in say 10 to 15 years.

Stacie: 15:58

Yeah, well, that's if the 1031 exchange rule still exists at that time.

Kevin: 16:02

Yeah, that's right. I mean, I don't see the 1031 rule going away completely, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some modifications to it.

Stacie: 16:11

Yeah, well, I guess we're going to find out as time goes on. Our other option is to ask about seller financing for that sixplex. But again, most of the time they want a larger down payment, at least from what we've experienced here in California. We did crunch some numbers for the seller financing and we could likely make it work depending on their terms. I think we figured if they would be willing to lend at 6%, and that's not interest only, we would want to pay the loan down over the term of the loan and then do a balloon payment. And I think it was like seven or 10 years, then we'd be in a good position. Again, not having a crystal wall and knowing where the interest rates will be at that later date. So, you know, who knows But that would put us in a positive cashflow position. And this is why knowing the market and the area is so important before buying an investment property, especially a multifamily. When you get into commercial sized properties, you need to look at the price per unit. This sixplex is in a very decent area, not far from the capitol. Has different sized units. I think it's got three, two bedroom, two bath units and three, one bedroom, one bath units. Which is what we prefer. We like a mix of unit sizes because it allows us a variety of tenant pools, which makes it much easier to rent and keep them rented. Sometimes we find that two bedroom units are harder to keep rented when there are roommates living together, as one wants out and the other one can't find a roommate or they decide they just want to live on their own. But this turnover does allow us the opportunity to increase rents if we get into a position where rents have jumped way ahead of the max that we can increase due to the California rent control laws. In the scenario that I just mentioned, while it's a pain to turn a unit, we usually can increase rent somewhere in the hundred dollar per month range, making the hassle of placing a new tenant really worth it. But the more units you have in a property, the lower the unit price is. And for our area, that six plexe's asking price is only$200,000 more than a rundown four plex around the corner. So essentially we can get two more units with a combined average rental income of around$3500 a month for$200,000. And the rents will continue to rise as will the appreciation on the property. So for us, that makes sense if we can find a way to make the numbers work and get seller financing.

Kevin: 18:49

That sounds easy enough.

Stacie: 18:50

Yeah, I know, right?

Kevin: 18:52

But hey, you guys, that is why we're talking to you about this today. I mean, we're walking you through our journey on buying the next rental property. And sometimes the decisions we have to make are not easy. We are going over the good, the bad, and the ugly. Giving you all the factors that are important to us when looking to buy a rental property. So, take what you hear with a grain of salt. Our situation is unique to us, just as yours is to you. But we just might make some points that you have not considered yet. And that's why we do what we do here at Your Landlord Resource. So, let's talk about our options out of state or even out of our area here in Northern California. Many of you already know that we own a fourplex in Idaho and we purchased that mostly because kid number two lives there and we have his eyes on it. We are also able to combine visits with him with quote unquote business trips to visit the property a couple times a year, which most of the expenses can be a tax deduction. Will be purchased out there again? Not at this time. I mean Idaho prices and market rents are a similar situation to California's now, and we are having a hard time making any of the numbers work for the size of property that we want. California seems to have better property appreciation rates and rental increases, so we can recoup our losses faster and easier in California than Idaho. Well, at least in the Boise and surrounding area. We prefer to be near a large or capital city whenever possible, because usually there will always be employment with government and universities. And many times larger businesses will have their corporate offices in capital cities as well. Military bases are sometimes near capital cities, and that helps out a lot too. So let me first start with out of the area, but still in California. Kid number one lives in San Diego and we would love to do the same thing that we did in Idaho and buy a property near him so that we can go and visit him and our investment property at the same time. Unfortunately, San Diego is a tough market to enter. Now, our future daughter in law's family owns quite a bit of property in the San Diego area, but they picked up most of those buildings years ago. They also self manage and her dad does a lot of the work himself on the units. The properties they buy need a lot of work so that's how they make the numbers work. They are also in a position to buy properties at all cash so they have more negotiating power. And where I am sure he would be willing to set us up with his team down there, we have decided to wait until kid number one and his future bride decide on exactly where they're going to be living. It will definitely be down in the San Diego area, but who knows if there'll be on the beach or inland. I mean, San Diego is a pretty big area to cover and we think we might prefer to just pick up a home for ourselves near them to use when we visit and either short term or midterm rent it during those unused times. So that's it for San Diego and California in general.

Stacie: 22:00

All right, so let's move on to out of state. We touched on Boise, Idaho, which we're open to if the right deal comes around. We are also interested in Indiana, Tennessee, and parts of South Carolina. We are definitely open to other states, but those are the ones that we've read a lot about and they have factors that align with our personal goals and investment strategy. We're also intrigued by Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Des Moines, Iowa, and Huntsville, Alabama. Texas is also in there as we have quite a bit of family there, but it's not high up on our list right now. So let's start with Indiana. We like the southern area of Indiana, like Indianapolis, or maybe a little north of that, right on the border of Illinois kind of near Chicago. The landlord tenant laws in Indiana are very landlord friendly, and if you buy in the right spot you can get access to tenants who work in Chicago and make a bit more money, but live in Indiana. The prices in Indiana are good and we can make the numbers easily work. We can really get a pretty decent size multifamily property if we took out a loan or we could buy multiple smaller units like duplexes or triplexes by dividing up our$250,000 and trying to take out multiple loans. In Indianapolis, it's the capital city, so you have government jobs there. There are several universities in the area. And where we're not big on college rentals, there's a large staff and employment base for these universities that we can tap into. It's also the home of the head of the NCAA. So there's a lot of college sports stuff going on. Not that that's important financially, but most of our family loves college sports, so we like the connection there. Pharmaceuticals, healthcare and manufacturing are big there as well as Amazon and FedEx have hubs in the area. And those two alone employ over 15, 000 people. There's a nice mix of employment there. So if one industry takes a hit, there's others that can hold that area up. And where this might seem silly, one thing that we look for in out of state locations is how easy it is for us to get there. We do prefer to invest in places where we can take a direct flight to it and not have to do any connections. Now, as we will not be managing it ourselves, we will have to hire a property manager, we do not anticipate having to visit often. But you guys, you do need to keep an eye on your properties. So if you're not willing to travel there at least once a year to evaluate how the property is being managed, you should have someone in the area that you can trust to do your inspections for you. And these aren't just to spy on your property manager. You should be in your unit seeing what is needed for improvements or preventative maintenance at some point too. Going and visiting the property is an expense that you can deduct from your income at tax time. So use those tax savings to roll it back into the property and keep it nice so it stays rented. The Nashville, Tennessee area is always on our radar. Not exactly the downtown area as we feel it's pretty saturated at this point, but Clarksville is a great city about 60 miles northwest of Nashville. There is a military base there. Amazon and FedEx distribution centers and a university among other large businesses. In Nashville, Oracle has announced that it's moving their headquarters there in the next few years because they are heavy into healthcare and Nashville is becoming a big hub for that. So somewhere in between Clarksville and Nashville seems appealing to us. We can fly direct into Nashville and let's just say, you know, kind of a fun place to visit. Prices are not as great as Indiana, but they are definitely doable. And Okay, now I mentioned South Carolina and that one is a little more personal to us. Our son, kid number three, went to college and graduated from Clemson University, which is about 30 minutes outside of Spartanburg and Greenville, South Carolina. And oh man, did we love that area when we visited. Another investor that we know, you might have heard of him, Chad Carson, also known as Coach Carson, invests in that area as well. Now the prices are good there, but unfortunately, there is not a lot of inventory to choose from. It's pretty hard to find a good deal unless you know someone who deals with a lot of investment properties. It also does not have a direct flight to get in there. So traveling there is going to take us a full day, which honestly is not appealing at all. We did that several times a year, as did our son, and weather in the connecting cities is not always easy to work around. Often, we would have to deal with long delays and sometimes cancellations, and honestly, I'm not a huge fan of that. But if we can find a good deal in Greenville, I think we might jump on it. The area has grown in leaps and bounds, and it's just beautiful. Professionally, the area has businesses such as the North American headquarters for Michelin. They have a large tech presence. Lockheed Martin has a large campus there. And there's a lot of foreign money that's invested in businesses in that area as well. Not to mention Clemson University is not far away and has off campus learning in that area too.

Kevin: 27:40

Yes, so you guys, we do try to keep our heart out of our investing, but sometimes when both align, it's a beautiful thing. As you can see, we have some places that we just love to visit and others that are great for investing. And when we can combine them both, I mean, it's a win win for us. I want to talk briefly about a couple other areas that we will look into as well. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Des Moines, Iowa and Huntsville, Alabama are areas that we have not done much research into, but seem to keep popping up in our online discussions we're involved in, articles we read, and some of our out of state Realtors who have sent us properties to review them in those areas. Huntsville compares nicely with Greenville, South Carolina that Stacie just talked about. NASA has a big presence there as well. Pittsburgh draws thousands of professionals with Uber, Google, Facebook, and Amazon, and not to mention IBM and Microsoft and several university campuses. They have landlord tenant laws that are very landlord friendly and the rental market is strong. And lastly, their properties tend to appreciate well, as they have been noted in the top 10 percent of national locations with consistent increases in property value. And then there's Des Moines, Iowa. It's the state capital and it's been dubbed the insurance capital as many insurance companies are headquartered there. There's a lot of ag and financial services company as well. It's a university town as well as a very landlord friendly state. And the investment market is strong from what we've read about so far. It holds the title as the fastest growing large metropolitan area in the Midwest. And one other place that Stacie did not mention was that we have seriously considered buying a condo on the island of Maui. Now, this would require us to hold it as a short term rental, which is fine. Maui and Hawaii in general is just one of our favorite places to visit. We have very fond memories of annual vacations there with the kids before they all became adults and are off living their own lives.

Stacie: 29:49

Yeah. You know, Maui is one of those places where I am able to 100 percent be able to relax and unwind. There is just something in the air there where all of my angst and worry goes away. And I am truly able to disconnect and enjoy some downtime.

Kevin: 30:06

Yep. Everyone there is on island time for sure. I mean, it may not be the most lucrative investment, but there is something to say about owning a beautiful beachfront property where we can visit a couple times a year. We do have one condo in mind, and before you start yelling at us about how the government is pushing out short term rentals, believe me, we know. We also know there are certain areas and zones where short term rentals are allowed, and we're being very careful to make sure to only look in those areas to protect our investment. I'll tell you that this one is a two bedroom, two bath condo, but it costs the same as our sixplex in Sacramento. And it's not going to be a big moneymaker for us, so the chances of us really pulling the trigger and investing there is slim, but we did look into it and crunch the numbers. Where it might not be a good option now, we're going to table it into the someday pile. Someday, meaning that we can purchase something, maybe for cash, and be able to enjoy part of our retirement there.

Stacie: 31:11

I still have that condo up in the tabs on my computer.

Kevin: 31:15

Believe me, I know. I saw you showing it to your mom last weekend, trying to get her all excited about it.

Stacie: 31:21

I was., and she was intrigued, but she's not a condo kind of person. She wants a house and well, that's just not going to happen. So I'll just keep staring at the photos on my laptop and dreaming for now. All right. So a couple more small things that we want to talk about. And one is until we find our next investment, let's talk about where we're holding this money, so it continues to earn some interest. Believe it or not, kid number two was turned on to an online bank by his, or should I say our mortgage broker who happens to be on our Idaho investment team? It's called Wealthfront. And right now they're offering interest on cash accounts at 5%. No holding periods, no lock in dates, no penalties for withdrawals. It's a straight cash account where you can hold up to$250,000 and earn 5%. If you want a link to learn more, email us and we'll send you the link. Those emails are linked in the show notes. If you open an account with that link, both of us will earn an additional half percent for three months, making the interest rate five and a half percent. And I'll tell you that we are able to earn more from the interest in that account than some of the investments that we're talking about here today.

Kevin: 32:38

Seriously, I mean, it does make you wonder if holding it there is a better option. Definitely no work associated with it.

Stacie: 32:45

Yeah, but no appreciation either.

Kevin: 32:47

Eh, yeah, true. But for now it works best, so we don't feel we have to rush into anything.

Stacie: 32:53

Yeah, exactly. And the last thing I want to say is that we know there are a bunch of investment calculators out there. We have access to several of them from all the different investment groups that we belong to. But the one that Kevin seems to like the best is the one from BiggerPockets. And I believe you have to be a pro member to get access to it, but there are several lines where you can add expenses or even income lines to make your estimates pretty accurate. We like to research and use our own numbers and not the ones provided in the sales packets that are coming from the seller. Often those numbers are really often nowhere near ours. If you want to learn more or sign up for a free account to Bigger Pockets, we're going to link them in the show notes for you. We get nothing for it, but their landlord forum is pretty helpful. And I think you get access to that with a free account. And the last thing I'll say is if you do not have access to a calculator, your mortgage broker should be able to help you out and give you basic numbers. At least the numbers that the lenders will be using to determine the profitability of an investment property. All right, that is our show for today. Thanks so much for tuning in and listening to all we have to say. We hope that this episode helps you understand that we really are just regular old property investors and that we have big decisions to make just like everyone else. If you like what you hear, would you do us a favor and subscribe or follow on your favorite podcast platform? That way our episodes will be there waiting for you each week so you can enjoy all we have to say about landlording and owning rental properties. And we would really appreciate if you could leave us a kind review. That really helps other landlords like you know that we are the real deal and hopefully they will start to listen too. Links to the review sites are in our show notes. If you'd like to download any of the free forms that we offer, or if you want to sign up for our free weekly newsletter, you can access those in the show notes as well. If you'd like to follow along, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook. We have a private Facebook group as well, and it's been seeing a lot of Q and A activity lately. You can find all the links in the show notes. Thanks again for taking the time out of your day to listen to our podcasts. Until next time, you've got this landlords.